What is up with Miss? Knew our D was shakey but not this bad. Does Ryna have to go?
From the Penthouse to the Outhouse
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 ultramaroon |
From the Penthouse to the Outhouse |
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Posts: 125 (10/18/09 01:29:41) 4th Line Center |
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bob gainey |
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Posts: 106 (10/18/09 09:28:30) |
The issue with the back end is that it lacks veteran leadership ie two guys that are the anchors.
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Petes No1 Fan |
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Posts: 1635 (10/18/09 16:30:38) |
I think the problems are bigger then that. Not a single defenceman, other then the seldom used Holden has improved over last season.
This defence, aside from Robertson, who is the least of the problems was all drafted in the top 4 rounds. It should not be this bad. Either bad drafting, or they aren't getting the coaching they need. In this case, I'll go with coaching. Braithwaite played U-17, Sedlak came in as a top NHL prospect, he's not anymore, Doornbosch's defence has not improved since the day he got here. You could say the same about Lowry. Holden's improved, but he's not really filling a need, plus it's hard not to improve on last season which was a disappointment in comparison to his callup as a 16 year old. Smith is fine, but has hardly played here. It's not only defence, find me a forward that is better this year then last season. Aside from Daley, Theberge and Spooner. The coaching staff hasn't developed anyone. This is a developmental league. Bringing in a few veterans helps the problem, but it only hides it for a short time. |
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NerdHerd2 |
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Posts: 54 (10/18/09 20:15:30) |
The first challenge, they need to realize that defense is not just a "defensemen" responsibility. We have been down this discussion topic before.
It is a team game at both ends.
They started forechecking hard during preseason games and during the first 2 games, then went back to old habits. Want to manage shots on net, keep the puck away from the opposition and keep it in the opposition end of the rink. The last few games they were back to centre ice trap again. PAINFUL. Try counting the number of faceoffs the Petes win. Everything starts with the faceoff. It is easy to blame the defense, but it is much bigger than just a defense problem. In the defensive zone, Petes try to play man-on-man and the shots keep coming from oposition players that shold be covered by forward players. Why did they start Missian last game ... ???? Forwards: Kassian ... great when he plays the complete game and every shift ... not in good enough shape to play PK ... just gets tired for other parts of the game Spooner ... great ... can't win faceoffs ... good passer and playmaker ... this is all obvious ... Therberge .. producing based on more ice time ... need to manage the opposing centre in his own end ... please not on the PK Daley ... starting to produce, can he keep it up. Looked reasonable on the PP but periodically shows old habits of not moving the puck. I think I would try him on the PP point a few more times ... risky yes but often better than Sedlak Amazing chemistry for the next three ... sum is greater than the parts. Quesnele .. trying hard Walchessen ... working hard ... better than expected ... PK West ... dependable on the PK and kills the clock Larson ... needs to use his size more ... Hellis .. works hard and needs to find the back of the net more Defense: Why dress 8 defense (or 7 defense) out of 20 other OHL teams, VERY few dress more than 6 ... just crazy ... can't get any flow going. Robertson has played about the same as last year ... considering the injury he is playing very well ... expect more once he fully heals Smith has been getting worse as the season progresses ... obviously losing confidence. Can't pass tape to tape, brutal. Doornbosch has gotten better offensively and defensively. The plus/minus is explainable (empty net goals and PP goals against). Last night's game he killed a penalty and made the exit pass to Spooner which turned into Hellis's goal. Under utilized. Need to play him more with Robertson or Smith. Braithwaite's slowness is showing ... Sedlak .. clueless ... doesn't know where he needs to be. 4 on 4, doesn't understand he needs to cover his man. Bournomo .. will be costing the team lots of crosschecking penalties ... the giveaway leader on the team Lowry ... I must be the only one that likes what he brings ... he tries ... hasn't really had a fair chance to prove himself this year. Holden ... he is what he is .. he tries ... can't score in 2 years .. can't pin anyone in his own end .. rushes, shots over and over ... try making a smart pass. Need to make a trade. In summary, winning teams play their top 10 players a lot. If development is the objective then play everyone. Petes need to go for it THIS SEASON. Next season Kassian, Missian, Theberge, Daley (and maybe Doornbosch) will all be gone. At January trade deadline, it should be interesting. If the Petes (Jeff) could package a few players for one more good contributing forward, this should be an interesting season. The objective should be to finish first in the division for the best possible playoff option. If they can get to a Conference final, anything can happen, Missian could be the difference.
Last Edited By: NerdHerd2
10/18/09 20:53:33.
Edited 1 times.
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petes17 |
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Posts: 9 (10/18/09 22:51:05) |
I agree its time to look at the big picture and coaching. The defense get blamed but we have no offense (5-7 shots per period doesn't cut it). Opposing
teams walk easily out of their end as we drop back to trap. 8 D-men is too many and we have known this situation since the end of last season. Our D-men play
with different partners each night, each shift; they need to get used to a playing partner and build some chemistry. Smitty has the ability to be a good stay
home guy. So does ARobertson & Lowry. Robertson needs to get healthy and Lowry needs to get a chance and play within his role. Holden has had plenty of
opportunity with PP time still doesn't produce offensively. He is too small to handle the play in our own end. He looked good as a 16 year old call up but
lets not forget he often played with Bogo(who wouldn't look good). Bunomo has a physical upside but bad decision making on when and how to use it is costly
to the team. He needs to buy more into the team concept and play with some discipline.
I agree our coaches have not developed our players from year to year and this is the coaches job. Braithwaite was a U-17, Lowry was a U-17 finalist until he separated his shoulder as a 16 year old. tatryn put up huge offensive numbers in the U.S. getting him drafted. The coaches have to get these players to their potential. Confidence is such a huge part of playing this game and it doesn't appear these players have any (back to the coach). With the East fairly wide open it may be time to look at the big picture, the guys running the bench don't seem to be doing it. This team still has youth and some high draft picks to work with. When Kas and Puempel get back combined with Mis in the net and someone to get these guys on the right I'd like to think this team has the ability to make a significant stand in the East |
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Shadow |
Some Comments | ||
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Posts: 17 (10/19/09 10:39:17) |
First of all - a point of clarification: I believe powerplay goals do not count in plus/minus stats regardless of which team scores. Goals only count if they
are even strength or short handed . Someone can confirm or deny this.
I have to respectfully take issue with some of the comments re- the defense. In my opinion, only 3 of the D have been respectable in their own end this year - Robertson, Smith and Holden. While I agree that Holden is too small, he's worked hard to play "smarter" in his own end, and while he's not all-star material, he's certainly been more effective than some of his colleagues in his own end. Both Buonomo and Braithwaite have shown they are not ready for the speed at this level, and while Braithwaite has tried to be physical, he just does not have the size and strength to play the type of game he's aspiring to. Sedlak remains an enigma- he's got all the tools but just can't put them together. Which leaves Doornbosch and Lowry. I honestly think that Doornbosch should be moved to forward and play D only on the powerplay. I agree with Petes #1 - he has not improved 1 bit defensively from his rookie season. The same mistakes and mental errors time and time again. Defensively, he's just not an OHL calibre defenseman - I'd never I thought I'd pine for the days of seeing Trevor Hendrikx back on defense, but Doornbosch makes Hendrikx look like Larry Robinson defensively. Ditto for Lowry, is this guy coachable? - his -5 speaks for itself. The Petes defense can only get better with less Doornbosch and Lowry back there. But in the absence of getting anybody else back there, we're destined to see more of the same 
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NextSeason |
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Posts: 27 (10/19/09 13:29:43) |
Plus / Minus:
Obviously, even strength, it applies If Petes are on the PK, the minus will not apply if the opposition scores, BUT, if the Petes score while short handed, the Petes PK players receive a plus. If Petes are on the PP, the plus will not apply if the Petes score, BUT, if the Petes get scored on while on the PP, the minus does apply. Empty nets goals (usually near the end of a close game) do count as minus for the Petes. |
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ptbopete |
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Posts: 18 (10/20/09 14:29:14) |
There are just a few references to coaching and one specifically to Ryan Barnes (that's "Ryna" in the first post) in this thread. Ryan, I
believe, is the guy responsible for the defense. Hello? 8-1 loss at home! C'mon!
Some of the posts are very good. Many players aren't developing. Period. Where do we start? Kassian, Doornbosch, and others have not gotten better substantially. Kassian is out of shape and one wonders how he got hurt? Injuries usually happen cause guys aren;t in shape. Many players were better when they arrived to the Petes as 16 or 17 year olds! Walchessen, West, Tatrn, Holden, Braithwaite and Lowry and others have not developed much. Last year Braithwaite was nailing guys with Bryan Young-like hits ! Wha'happen? Only Spooner and maybe Theberge have shown some improvement because Spooner is Yzerman-like and has natural talent and Theberge (and maybe Daley) are better probably because they've been doing this for so long at this level that they re getting the ice-time and creating opportunities on the PP. The management of this team should be held accountable. They are the ones drafting and picking the staff. Any why doesn't Mike Ddavies of the Examiner get on his soapbox and say something about all of this! Geesh! |
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miles.thepetesfanclub |
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Posts: 11 (10/20/09 15:14:34) |
Davies can't say anything bad about them or the old boys club that runs the team will have him fired. time for a private owner to buy this team and get rid
of the guys who gave themselves a nice boardroom, in fact turn their boardroom into the best seats in the house and raffle them off or something for lucky fans
every game.
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Petes Central |
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Posts: 48 (10/20/09 17:45:47) |
Yeah let's get Jim Balsille in here and he can move the team to Hamilton. I like the community owned end of things. It keeps the team in Peterborough for
good. Let's not go sell it off here.
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Outsider |
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Posts: 1 (10/20/09 18:29:01) |
Interesting how you feel Kassian is out of shape....from what I've read since he's got to Peterorough he's been the strongest most all round fit
Pete. In fact I read somewhere he broke all strength test results since as far back as recorded for the Petes. I also read on the Buffalo training camp
notes where he was the strongest rookie and scored first in 3 of 6 fitness test at the rookie camp in June which included AHL vets. Kids get hurt for various
reasons....Shoulders, knees, head (concs) happen they are part of the game. With the Petes D rimming everything I'm surprised we have not had more weaker
wingers killed. The fact is OHL hockey does not alway utilize players for what they will be when they start to move to the pro ranks. Kassian will never be
on the PK and he will never have to play the point on the PP in the NHL. He'll play on the top 2 lines add grit and average 50-60 pts a year once he gets
established. He's required to do all those things because perhaps the coaches feel he's best fit for those roles. Where's the leadership been
since he left? the bulk of the players on this roster are at the end of their road. There's a reason for that....they are not going anywhere and their
effort from game to game shows. I've been reading Petes post for years and it continues to surprise me that several observers have no clue about the game
of hockey. On a high note...this team sit 4 points out of first and it has some draft picks and holes which can be fixed. This is junior hockey....every team
loses and sometimes in stretches. I sure Windsor is excited about their start with the roster they have...yeah right? We don't have a fraction of the
talent but may be able to do something in the East. Can anyone stay positiive? I guess as the saying goes "opinions are like @$$holes...everyone has
one" Enjoy it while you have Kassian because this the last year you'll have him! FYI....from a good source the only reason you have Kassian back is
because Buffalo feels the leadership role the Petes advised they were going to provided for him this year and a solid chance at World Juniors is more important
than a year in the show at 18.
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Angus2816 |
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Posts: 76 (10/20/09 18:59:20) 4th Line Center |
Petes Central wrote:Selling to a private owner doesn't mean the team would be on the move. Jim Balsillie didn't want to move a team to Hamilton just because he likes the town. He wanted to do it because it was a massive business opportunity. Every piece of research and surveying done on the subject showed that Hamilton would easily support an NHL franchise, and that the team would immediately jump into the league's upper echelon of money-earning franchises. It's also worth note that Hamilton, much like Toronto, is an NHL town first and a hockey town a distant second. The AHL's Hamilton Bulldogs averaged about 4,600 people per game last year in a rink that can hold 17,000. That attendance figure is middle-of-the-pack by AHL standards. If the city is that apathetic about a professional hockey team, why would they support a junior franchise? The Petes would be no better off in Hamilton than in Peterborough and don't think for a second that Jim Balsillie wouldn't know that. Even if it were a potential opportunity for him he wouldn't be stupid enough to uproot one of the most history-rich teams in the league FROM HIS HOME TOWN and move it. He'd be vilified by the entire city sufficient that he'd never be able to show his face around here again. I'm in full agreement with miles, the organization NEEDS to be sold to a private interest. If the Petes were owned privately by someone who cared one iota about good hockey then we wouldn't have had to deal with the mess we've been seeing for the last 4 years. The owner wouldn't tolerate it and (productive) moves would have been made long ago. |
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miles.thepetesfanclub |
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Posts: 12 (10/21/09 10:10:34) |
thanks angus just to be clear i don't want the team to leave peterborough either and balsillie buying a team in his hometown would be a perfect fit. i just
think jeff has his hands tied to a certain extent when dealing with this board of city appointees ( clicky old boys club) . Maybe he could do a better job if
private ownership had the opportunity to put some more money into the team for coaches and infrastructure to give players more reason to want to come here.
Clearly there is something wrong with our coaching i don't see any difference in the new guys and vince mallette to be honest. we should have given darren
keily a shot at it again i think jeff has other people steering these decisions and not enough money to get a top notch coach and this franchise deserves
better.
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ptbopete |
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Posts: 19 (10/21/09 12:23:07) |
Outsider - you have some good points. I said "usually" players get hurt if they are out of shape. They'll be off balance or weak after at the end
of a shift or take short-cuts and boom! they're hurt. I don't know if he's actually out of shape.My observations of Kassian are from last year
mostly. I'll admit that. Kassian has so much talent and we are priviliged to have him.
It's good to have a counter-voice saying "everyone relax, there's time to improve" . I guess is the fans are frustrated. It has been a long three years. |
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Northern Voice |
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Posts: 1183 (10/21/09 13:52:21) What doesn't Hunter do? |
FYI....from a good source the only reason you have Kassian back is because Buffalo feels the leadership role the Petes advised they were going to provided for him this year and a solid chance at World Juniors is more important than a year in the show at 18.There was never any chance of Kassian making the Sabres this season. If you read the articles in the Buffalo media during camp, there were 17 forwards battling for 12 spots and Kassian wasn't one of them. They have way too many guys there (this is why they just traded Daniel Paille, a 17 goal scorer at the NHL level away for nothing but picks). Kassian is a great player and the idea that he's out of shape is ridiculous to me. To the people that think a private owner coming in would change things, I disagree. I agree that the Petes are at a disadvantage competitively compared to teams like Windsor, London, Ottawa, Kitchener and the like but I believe it is because the OHL is becoming a league of large market teams versus small market teams. These teams have arenas that hold 6000+ fans (and they fill them) and hockey markets of 400,000+ people. Of course they have more money to spend than a team with a 3800 seat arena (that draws 2500 fans), in a hockey market of 100, 000 people. Unless the idea is that a wealthy owner comes in and loses lots of money by spending like London, while drawing less than half the revenue, I don't see how things would change. On top of this, is Kitchener not also community owned? They can spend money and bring in college players and cook deals because they generate the revenue to allow them to do so. |
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HockeyDude |
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Posts: 50 (10/21/09 14:17:43) |
I agree, Kassian was not making the Sabres this season, they even said when they sent him back that they wanted to give the guy's who play in the AHL a
chance over him this season. I wont be shocked at all if Kass is back again next season as well, he will get a longer look I would think, maybe even play a few
preseason games, but I could see him back here for one more season. Buffalo has a pretty good depth at forward, they can take time with Kass, I think it's
at least 50/50 on him coming back next season, they still wont be able to send him to the AHL, it's the NHL or back to the Petes again.
I also think it's ridiculous to think he's out of shape.
Last Edited By: HockeyDude
10/21/09 14:22:27.
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Lurker.thepetesfanclub |
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Posts: 2 (10/22/09 13:31:09) |
Kass won't be around much longer. The way this team is tanking, he'll be going somewhere else where he can develop into the player he should be.
Getting frustrated night in and night out isn't helping him at all.
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